tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post1126791687998470424..comments2023-07-06T06:03:42.275+02:00Comments on Alex's phonetic thoughts: Phonetic inaccuracies in the Hazon Garzanti Dictionary of EnglishAlex Rotatorihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-36631071269505518552012-01-07T10:59:11.970+01:002012-01-07T10:59:11.970+01:00"Judging by the rest of the descriptions, the..."Judging by the rest of the descriptions, the publishers are going for an RP-type accent, not a Northern accent."<br /><br />Definitely not a Northern accent, but a very old-fashioned RP one!<br /><br />"What do you think of the identification of "rosa" with the LOT vowel? Given this, I'm somewhat surprised the authors didn't describe the THOUGHT vowel as "o molto allungata" :)"<br /><br />Yes, you're right! The compilers should have stressed that they were referring to the flower (pronounced with /ɔ/), not the adjective/past participle "rosa", meaning 'eroded' (usually pronounced with /o/).<br /><br />"What else could they have said? Maybe referred to Castilian Spanish?"<br /><br />You may have noticed that the descriptions they provide are wrong: /θ/ is obviously voiceless and /ð/ voiced, not the other way round!Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-11291265956973583202012-01-07T10:18:46.425+01:002012-01-07T10:18:46.425+01:00æ is incorrectly described (at least for British E...<i>æ is incorrectly described (at least for British English) as a “suono aperto tra la «a» e la «e»” (‘an open sound between a and e’);</i><br /><br />Why is this incorrect? Judging by the rest of the descriptions, the publishers are going for an RP-type accent, not a Northern accent.<br /><br /><i>Even more shocking is the suggestion on the part of the authors that the English vowel ɜː is like the vowel sound in the French word heure, œʁ,</i><br /><br />It's not shocking to me -- when I learned French (before I started being interested in phonetics) I would have said that the two sounds were the same. I don't know how similar they sound to Italians.<br /><br />Similarly, "ciao" as pronounced by Italians has always sounded fairly similar to the English MOUTH vowel to me. <br /><br />What do you think of the identification of "rosa" with the LOT vowel? Given this, I'm somewhat surprised the authors didn't describe the THOUGHT vowel as "o molto allungata" :)<br /><br /><i>And what can we say of θ and ð, described respectively as “«th» sonoro” (‘voiced th’) and “«th» sordo” (‘voiceless th’)? </i><br /><br />What else could they have said? Maybe referred to Castilian Spanish?<br /><br />They seem to be attempting to describe the sounds of English to people who only speak Italian (and a little French,apparently) without the benefit of precise phonetic terminology or sound recordings. It's a difficult job, no doubt, and they seem to have made some bad decisions, but I'm not sure they quite deserve this level of criticism.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.com