tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post4922923171521227896..comments2023-07-06T06:03:42.275+02:00Comments on Alex's phonetic thoughts: Pope Francis' prayersAlex Rotatorihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-52718299638986937922013-03-20T21:33:59.847+01:002013-03-20T21:33:59.847+01:00Jack, so interesting as ever! Thanks!Jack, so interesting as ever! Thanks!Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-6196152673628897802013-03-20T21:06:53.010+01:002013-03-20T21:06:53.010+01:00I think the Lord's Prayer has unique int·rest ...I think the Lord's Prayer has unique int·rest from the linguistics and phonetics point of view. Much of this is on account of its being acquired by all (excepting infant prodigies) before one's able to read it — by hearing it repeated. This means that some words and some of their pronunciations may retain archaisms that have not persisted in more revised versions. This is cert·nly so in my case. I was given a Book of Common Prayer in 1932 when I was only six years old and wou·d not have yet learnt to read. The version I thereafter retained was 'Our Father 'which' not 'who' art in Heaven'. Also I acquired the pronunciation of hallowed which inste·d of the modern regularised /`haləʊd/ is the form unchanged from Middle English /`halwɪd/, tho I'd say this is very prob·bly a small-minority usage nowadays. The other way my spoken version differs from your (perfec·ly correct) one is stylistic. No dou·t from a feeling of preference for what seems more dignified, my generation and praps most of the present one still opt for the strongform of 'as' on both occasions of the word's occurrence which both seem to lend themselves to rhythmic break from what precedes them. A modernisation long gen·rally made has been to replace 'in earth' with 'on earth'. In the UK, GB speakers have almost all retained /trespəs/ but in GA /trespӕs/ seems to be establishing itself. Finally, I think I (used to) say “them that trespass a`gainst us” but praps now “them that trespass against `us” is commonly used. <br />JWLhttp://yek.me.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-87210600201670846542013-03-18T15:01:10.216+01:002013-03-18T15:01:10.216+01:00John, thank you so much for your comments!
"...John, thank you so much for your comments! <br /><br />"I feel it has to be ðə ˈlɔːd ɪz ˈwɪð ðiː": I was a bit unsure this morning about "The Lord is with thee" because I've heard English native speakers stress both the preposition and the pronoun, but the version you propose is probably the commoner of the two.Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-29436969043501783422013-03-18T13:19:03.374+01:002013-03-18T13:19:03.374+01:00Just a couple of comments on your English transcri...Just a couple of comments on your English transcription of the prayers, which are, as always, wonderfully accurate. The comments have to do with accentuation and weak forms. I am crossing my fingers that no-one asks me WHY I think what I do...<br />"The Lord is with thee"<br />I feel it has to be ðə ˈlɔːd ɪz ˈwɪð ðiː <br />Similarly, and ever shall be → ənd evə ˈʃæl bi<br />(here the future tense contrasts with the preceding past and present tenses)<br />Finally, "blessed art thou". I see John Wells in LPD mentions an occasional weak form for "art", but I am pretty sure I have never heard it used in the Hail Mary, so ˈblesɪd ɑːt ˈðaʊJohn Maidmenthttp://blogjam.namenoreply@blogger.com