tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post5053766130389338761..comments2023-07-06T06:03:42.275+02:00Comments on Alex's phonetic thoughts: Horsmonden nativity playAlex Rotatorihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-53887265559753201502012-01-03T22:10:53.332+01:002012-01-03T22:10:53.332+01:00Just had a quick listen to some Mancunians in the ...Just had a quick listen to some Mancunians in the <a href="http://web.ku.edu/~idea/" rel="nofollow">IDEA</a> dialect archive (the subjects say where they're from after reading a passage). <a href="http://web.ku.edu/~idea/europe/england/england43.mp3" rel="nofollow">A male born 1967</a> has [ɪ] or [ə] (or no vowel) in the middle syllable, as does <a href="http://web.ku.edu/~idea/europe/england/england10.mp3" rel="nofollow">a "female, twenties"</a>, but <a href="http://web.ku.edu/~idea/europe/england/england73.mp3" rel="nofollow">another female born 1983</a> has [ɛ]. In <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz6JFNeA8pA" rel="nofollow">this clip</a> celeb scientist Brian Cox varies between a reduced syllable and [ɛ]. I suspect [ɛ] is more recent, a spelling pronunciation.Geoff Lindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03801874423150269748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-71003293143765535592012-01-02T13:12:40.645+01:002012-01-02T13:12:40.645+01:00@ Geoff Lindsey: I think that the people of the c...@ Geoff Lindsey: I think that the people of the city have always pronounced it with [ɛ]. Old and young Mancunians pronounce the city in the same way, as far as I can tell.<br /><br />I'm pleased to see one reference for [ɪ] though. The Queen counts for something :)Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-88232837393470619822011-12-31T02:28:47.028+01:002011-12-31T02:28:47.028+01:00@Ed:
No need to be baffled, it's just typical ...@Ed:<br />No need to be baffled, it's just typical of the obsolescent/obsolete RP pronunciation given in dictionaries. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uflBanwrKoI" rel="nofollow">Here</a> you can hear HMQ saying [ˈmæntʃɪstə] at 00:25. The displacement of [ɪ] by [ɛ] is almost certainly a spelling pronunciation.Geoff Lindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03801874423150269748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-52734805347287219122011-12-30T21:58:42.741+01:002011-12-30T21:58:42.741+01:00Well, in English, there are many instances of unst...Well, in English, there are many instances of unstressed but full vowels. Merriam-Webster is good at listing this sort.<br /><br />This usually happens when the unstressed syllable is closed. I can recall the following words.<br /><br />fan-TAS-tic<br />pos-TER-i-ty > po-STER-i-tyHenkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03129011648952508462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-37067900936334380892011-12-30T02:46:42.617+01:002011-12-30T02:46:42.617+01:00djuː tu ɪts keɪˈɒtɪk ˈspelɪŋ, ˈɪŋɡlɪʃ ˈpleɪs ˈneɪm...djuː tu ɪts keɪˈɒtɪk ˈspelɪŋ, ˈɪŋɡlɪʃ ˈpleɪs ˈneɪmz ər ən ˌesəʊˈterɪk ˈnɒlɪdʒ əˈveɪləbl̩ ˈəʊnli fə ði ɪˈnɪʃɪeɪtɪd (ɔː fə ðəʊz ˈlaɪk miː, huː əʊn ðə ˈlɒŋmən prəˌnʌnsɪˈeɪʃn̩ ˈdɪkʃənri). ˈaɪ rɪˈkɔːl ðət ɪt tʊk miː ə lɒt əv ˈtaɪm tə faɪnd ðət ðə ˈsɪti weə maɪ ˈmʌðəz ˈɡræn ˌmʌðə keɪm frɒm, wəz [ˈdʌrəm] (mɔːˈrəʊvə ˈaɪ rɪˈsiːvd ɪt ˈhəʊli dɪˈstɔːtɪd θruː maɪ nɒn ˈɪŋɡlɪʃ ˈspiːkɪŋ ˈfæmɪli). ət liːst ðɪs ˈpleɪs ˈfɒləʊz ə sɔːt əv ɪˈreɡjʊlə ruːl, bət ðər ər ˈʌðə ˈlaɪk , , , , and huːz prəˌnʌnsɪˈeɪʃn̩ (ˈlestə, ˈwʊstə, ˈwɒrɪk, ˈglæmz, ˈtuːˌsɒn ənd ˈɡrenɪtʃ) ju həv tə lɜːn ðəm ˈlaɪk tʃaɪˈniːz ˈaɪdɪəɡræmz: baɪ hɑːt. ˈɪŋɡlɪʃ ˈraɪtɪŋ dəz nɒt fʊlˈfɪl ɪts ˈpɜːpəs əv ˈɡɪvɪŋ ˈækjʊrɪt ˌɪnfəˈmeɪʃn̩ əˈbaʊt ˈhaʊ tə prəˈnaʊns ðə ˈwɜːdz.Hlnodovichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132832728785189163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-57799594472261237912011-12-30T02:46:03.790+01:002011-12-30T02:46:03.790+01:00Dju tu its cejotic speliŋ, inɡlix pleis neimz r ən...Dju tu its cejotic speliŋ, inɡlix pleis neimz r ən esouteric noliж əveiləbl ounli fr ði inixieitid (or fr ðouz laic mi, hu oun ð Loŋmn Prənφnsieixn Dicxnri). Ai ricol ðt it tuc mi ə lot əv taim t faind ðt ð siti wer mai mφðrz ɡranmφðr ceim from, wz [Dφrəm] (morouvr ai risiivd it houli distortid þru mai non inɡlix spiiciŋ famili). Ət liist ðis pleis folouz ə sort əv ireɡiulr ruul, bt ðr r φðr laic , , , , n huuz prənφnsieixn (Lestə, Wustə, Woric, Glamz, Tuuson n Grenik) ju hv t lωrn ðm laic kainiiz aidiəɡramz: bai hart. Inɡlix raitiŋ dəz not fulfil its pωrpəs əv ɡiviŋ aciurət infrmeixn əbaut hau t prənauns ð wωrdz.Hlnodovichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132832728785189163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-25676415211932901632011-12-29T00:26:38.102+01:002011-12-29T00:26:38.102+01:00@ vp: You're right actually. Now that I liste...@ vp: You're right actually. Now that I listen again, I notice the lack of a FOOT-GOOSE opposition and the retention of a WINE-WHINE distinction. It's certainly an accent that's been very heavily influenced by RP though.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-52182611151108544292011-12-28T19:25:20.411+01:002011-12-28T19:25:20.411+01:00@Ed:
She has a Scottish accent, not RP.@Ed:<br /><br />She has a Scottish accent, not RP.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-54853296027013891732011-12-28T11:29:25.268+01:002011-12-28T11:29:25.268+01:00@ vp: I'll defer to you on the pronunciation o...@ vp: I'll defer to you on the pronunciation of the name "Manchester" in Birmingham but, most times when I hear the name on the BBC, it is with a DRESS vowel.<br /><br />Have a look at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nANGUIJNzy0" rel="nofollow">this video</a>! The woman's voice sounds RP to me, yet she uses the DRESS vowel at 0:17.<br /><br />As I've mentioned on John Wells's blog before, I've always struggled with the concept of a received pronunciation for a place-name. Don't the residents of the place know best?Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-10165465453071148972011-12-27T13:50:33.353+01:002011-12-27T13:50:33.353+01:00@Ed:
It's possible that things have changed i...@Ed:<br /><br />It's possible that things have changed in the 15 years since I lived in England, but I would say that the RP pronunciation is definitely /ˈmæntʃɪstə/. <br /><br />Do "most people outside the city" pronounce it with an unstressed DRESS vowel? Definitely, if you include Americans. However, If the electorate were restricted to England, I'd put my money on /ɪ ~ ə/. I grew up in Birmingham and, although I don't myself have a Brummie accent, I knew plenty of people who did. I remember being struck for the first time by the DRESS vowel in"Manchester" when I first started to meet people from that city, which was when I left Birmingham to go to university.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-11236175705181294682011-12-27T10:43:36.440+01:002011-12-27T10:43:36.440+01:00I have always been baffled by the prescription of ...I have always been baffled by the prescription of /mæntʃɪstə/ in pronunciation dictionaries. The residents of Manchester definitely say /mæntʃestə/ and I'm sure that most people outside the city pronounce it this way as well. It is usually said as /mæntʃestə/ when discussing the two football teams on the BBC, although I'm not sure whether football journalists have the same respect in RP as political journalists do.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-26476311043810377582011-12-26T13:12:35.374+01:002011-12-26T13:12:35.374+01:00I live in the village and we say it like this--
ho...I live in the village and we say it like this--<br />horse-mon-den, with less emphasis on the den.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-91763331970486963542011-12-25T16:51:12.132+01:002011-12-25T16:51:12.132+01:00Many thanks, John!Many thanks, John!Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-60915609248361522392011-12-25T16:28:38.281+01:002011-12-25T16:28:38.281+01:00Merry Christmas, AlexMerry Christmas, AlexJohn Maidmenthttp://blogjam.namenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-51940244526499907642011-12-24T16:10:13.108+01:002011-12-24T16:10:13.108+01:00Even native English speakers interpret "full&...Even native English speakers interpret "full" vowels as indicating stress when they don't. English people frequently pronounce actor Rhys Ifans's (/ˈivans/) surname with the stress on the final syllable, which I'm convinced is partly because he pronounces the syllable as [a], not as a schwa. Of course, they also pronounce the first consonant as /f/, as if the spelling were English, so they're obviously not paying very close attention at all to how he says it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com