tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post5607382306609623337..comments2023-07-06T06:03:42.275+02:00Comments on Alex's phonetic thoughts: AssiduityAlex Rotatorihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-37477456960781654032014-06-30T04:44:06.810+02:002014-06-30T04:44:06.810+02:00Re the /-ˈʤu-/ AmE variant for assiduity, the same...Re the /-ˈʤu-/ AmE variant for <i>assiduity</i>, the same dictionary gives the same affricate for <i>(in)credulity</i> too, so it's not an isolated case. Since words like <i>duty</i> are not given this treatment, it appears that it is given only when a reduced syllable involving affrication is reaccented. On the voiceless side, <i>fortuitous</i> has only the yod-dropped, unaffricated sound. Not sure if voicing makes any difference, though.Akitonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-53007170870255839502014-06-11T12:57:20.856+02:002014-06-11T12:57:20.856+02:00Sorry, I mean "... those pronunciations"...Sorry, I mean "... those pronunciations".Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762196203762970377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-80836683840262268652014-06-11T12:03:34.538+02:002014-06-11T12:03:34.538+02:00If you are a native speaker, vp, perhaps you could...If you are a native speaker, vp, perhaps you could tell us how you feel about those expressions (Do you or anyone you can think of still use them?, that sort of thing). It would be much more constructive than simply getting angry.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762196203762970377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-31041797485681098972014-06-11T02:51:25.654+02:002014-06-11T02:51:25.654+02:00Still no evidence it's "completely out of...Still no evidence it's "completely out of date".<br /><br />You're welcome to say whatever you want on your own blog, of course, but if you use phrases like "completely out of date" without adequate evidence, don't be surprised if people get a tiny little bit pissed off.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-69941025738843818202014-06-10T14:49:04.726+02:002014-06-10T14:49:04.726+02:00Ahh, this was such a great read! I'm always so...Ahh, this was such a great read! I'm always so fascinated with these little nuances in language - I'm in advertising, so when it comes to translating messages across language and cultural barriers, things like this are extremely important when it comes to maintaining authenticity and capturing the attention of your audiences. Great job!Austin Voigthttp://wordtrans.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-84141637664569553382014-05-27T10:00:09.095+02:002014-05-27T10:00:09.095+02:00Vp, if you look up the term 'assiduity' in...Vp, if you look up the term 'assiduity' in Jack Windsor Lewis' "A Concise Pronouncing Dictionary of British and American English" (OUP, 1972), the only transcription you find for GB is with a schwa in the penultimate syllable. No /-ɪt-/ is given by the author. <br />Gimson says in the Foreword to the dictionary (p.v): "The forms given by Mr Windsor Lewis consistently reflect current usage". <br />And Jack W. L. writes in his Preface (p.vi): "Two broad types of English have been recorded, a British and an American. Each represents the fluent, spontaneous, everyday usage of those educated speakers on either side of the Atlantic whose speech is of the most generally accepted kind ...". <br />Finally, here's what the same author says on p.xiv about the pronunciations supplied:<br />"... [T]his dictionary excludes any British pronunciations which are associated specifically and only with a public boarding-school or any socially conspicuous background. In general it also excludes pronunciations which clearly represent the usage solely of a relatively small minority (say less than 20%) of British speakers... Also excluded are usages of even very slightly old-fashioned types and usages of any type associated solely with any particular, even very broad, regional subdivision of Great Britain". Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-41757988334770040242014-05-27T03:51:37.214+02:002014-05-27T03:51:37.214+02:00I think that if you reject something because it is...I think that if you reject something because it is slightly out of date, then it will automatically become completely out of date as long as you don’t use it anymore. When I go through the dictionary and I come across an expression labelled “becoming dated”, I understand that, for a certain number of speakers, that expression is actually “completely out of date”.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762196203762970377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-10292783354283668002014-05-27T00:31:08.983+02:002014-05-27T00:31:08.983+02:00OK -- so what's the evidence that the pronunci...OK -- so what's the evidence that the pronunciation is "completely out of date"?vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-82492688320493702292014-05-25T20:47:40.012+02:002014-05-25T20:47:40.012+02:00Dear vp, I think it is clear from my answer above ...Dear vp, I think it is clear from my answer above that I'm talking about VARIANTS that are old-fashioned, not PEOPLE that are old-fashioned because they use old-fashioned pronunciations. In my post I don't say "Anyone who doesn't use X is completely out of date".Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-21316039101649381592014-05-25T19:15:04.284+02:002014-05-25T19:15:04.284+02:00"Other completely out-of-date variants, ... h..."Other completely out-of-date variants, ... have -ɪtɪ or -ɪti as the last two syllables, and æ in the first. "vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-216307909401123272014-05-25T10:05:09.654+02:002014-05-25T10:05:09.654+02:00"Anyone who doesn't use X is completely o..."Anyone who doesn't use X is completely out of date"<br /><br />Never said that! We all use some old-fashioned variants in our idiolect and other variants that are the predominant ones. That doesn't necessarily make us out of date. Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-7058922182481731972014-05-25T09:54:14.969+02:002014-05-25T09:54:14.969+02:00Thank you, Akito! I've now added /əˈsɪʤəwəs/ a...Thank you, Akito! I've now added /əˈsɪʤəwəs/ as another possible variant. As far as /əˈsɪʤʊwəs/ goes, it's already included in /əˈsɪʤuəs/ as the symbol /u/ in my transcription can stand for both /uː/ and /ʊ/ or something intermediate or indeterminate. Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-91456381435623088642014-05-25T09:01:38.775+02:002014-05-25T09:01:38.775+02:00I looked at Cruttenden p. 114 via Google Books and...I looked at Cruttenden p. 114 via Google Books and found <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=M2nMAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PT211#v=onepage&q=%22becoming%20increasingly%20noticeable%22&f=false" rel="nofollow">the following</a>:<br /><br /><i>"A trend towards /ə/ in unaccented affixes, rather than /ɪ/, is becoming increasingly noticeable among younger GB speakers ... In some affixes [including "-ity"], /ə/ is most common".</i><br /><br />I'm not sure how you get from<br /><br /><b>X is increasingly noticeable among younger GB speakers</b><br /><br />or even<br /><br /><b>X is the most common form [among GB speakers]</b><br /><br />to <br /><br /><b>Anyone who doesn't use X is completely out of date</b><br /><br />A bit of exaggeration, no?<br />vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-68613257550507625152014-05-25T07:30:04.291+02:002014-05-25T07:30:04.291+02:00"in General American (GA) the only possibilit..."in General American (GA) the only possibilities are əˈsɪʤuəs ~ əˈsɪʤwəs for assiduous"<br /><br />I would add <b>əˈsɪʤəwəs</b> and a less reduced <b>əˈsɪʤʊwəs</b> to these possibilities. A matter of transcriptional convention, perhaps?Akitonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-89179250394437805862014-05-23T18:44:22.687+02:002014-05-23T18:44:22.687+02:00See, for example, Cruttenden's Gimson (2014), ...See, for example, Cruttenden's Gimson (2014), p. 114 and pp. 119-121. Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-467255806134392492014-05-23T17:01:59.528+02:002014-05-23T17:01:59.528+02:00Not a word I say much, but I have what you describ...Not a word I say much, but I have what you describe as the "completely out of date" pronunciation. What's your evidence for saying that?<br /><br />(btw, the variation between ash and "a" in the first vowel is merely a matter of transcriptional convention)vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-75090227738784336542014-05-22T14:06:29.893+02:002014-05-22T14:06:29.893+02:00Grazie tante, John!Grazie tante, John!Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-64855022970486363552014-05-22T13:03:24.737+02:002014-05-22T13:03:24.737+02:00anch' io.anch' io.john maidmenthttp://blogjam.namenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-9526707999233631002014-05-22T09:15:13.953+02:002014-05-22T09:15:13.953+02:00Many thanks!Many thanks!Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458071334276688877.post-48667112731080336742014-05-22T02:47:20.954+02:002014-05-22T02:47:20.954+02:00I've cast my vote now. Good luck, Alex!I've cast my vote now. Good luck, Alex!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762196203762970377noreply@blogger.com